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Tony Fearn
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 00:09:54
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I've had trouble in the past with my Series IIIA when trying to restart the car when the engine is hot.
Since then I had Hometune to it to sort it out, and it's run and started very well ever since until:-
Last week (Christmas 2011) I filled up with a different make of petrol and put the usual amount of VSP+ in the tank for a fill-up of 20 litres. I only topped-up with 17 litres of petrol rather than the 20 litres I usually put in.
I gave the old girl a non-stop run of about 25 miles just to get everything moving and came up to the garage door. The garage door key is on the same keyring as the ignition key, so I turned off the engine, unlocked the garage door and tried to restart the car. It wouldn't start, so I left it for half an hour, and went back to it when it reluctantly started and I was able to get it into the garage.
My question is - will there be too high an octane rating in the tank because I didn't put the correct amount of petrol in for the measured amount of VSP+, and will that have caused the car to run hot compromising the restart?
I'm loathe to use it again in case I'm stranded somewhere far from home if I turn the engine off.
Tony Fearn |
Edited by - Tony Fearn on 06 Jan 2012 00:13:16 |
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1052 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 19:10:42
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Hi Tony,
Not sure what VSP is - some sort of additive? I personally would not use additive, just a decent 97-98 octane fuel Shell Optimax, or V-Power as they call it now - that's 98 minimum the Esso & BP ones are 97. As for poor starting it could be you've picked up some poor fuel: I try to avoid supermarket stuff as quality in my opinion is variable & the only time I've had trouble is when I've used Tesco.
I would not say your octane rating is too high & even if it was, it should not have the effect you describe. Assume car ran OK other than the re-start after you fuelled up? Could be another problem that's coincidence?? I'd try to run some fuel off and add a few more gallons of decent stuff, albeit I appreciate your reluctance of getting stranded with same problem. Just my thoughts, but sure there will be more advice shortly  |
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Tony Fearn
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 00:25:42
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Thanks Glenn,
I'll burn a couple of gallons off and then do as you suggest, but will wait for another dry salt-free day!
Tony. |
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Tony Fearn
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 00:03:57
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Here we go again!!
Had the same trouble with the IIIA last week. Came to a stop in a long queue at traffic lights and the engine just died. I'd done about 20 miles, of which 3 were on the motorway about 10 minutes before it happened.
Fortunately I managed to get down a side street by using 1st gear and the starter. 30 mins later it started again as though there hadn't been a problem!! I'd put new points in a few days before, and cleaned the plugs, so perhaps it was fuel vaporisation again? So I searched the Internet (basically as I'm not savvy) and found this:-
http://www.vord.net/cars/helga/mga-fuel-vaporisation.html
Are there any heat shields available for the twin Zeniths on my car?
Failing this, has anyone got a paper template to make one as I attend a classic car restoration nightschool and will be able to reproduce such a shield from a pattern.
Tony. |
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 07:47:32
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Hello Tony,
the fact that your engine is stalling after you have driven a couple of miles can be caused also by a failing rotor. A lot of rotors which suffer of bad quality are on the market so if you have changed your rotor by such a bad one in the past chances are big that this rotor is failing. The right one to use is a red rotor which you can buy for instance at the distributor doctor. It is always best to replace rotor and cap at the same time.
The problem with this bad rotors occur as soon as the engine is warmed up and after cooling down alle seems to be okay again.
At least you can try this out by borrowing a good rotor plus cap from a fellow Rapier owner.
Regards,
Peter |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 08:33:28
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Fuel Vaporisation is causing a lot of problems for classic car owners. Unleaded fuel burns hotter thus increasing under bonnet temperatures.
One solution is to have the exhaust manifold ceramic coated which reduces the temperatures considerably, have a look at this website - http://www.zircotec.com
I once inquired about having mine done and I think it was around £300.
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 08:38:36
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There is also exhaust wrap - I've never tried it but maybe it would do the same job for less money.
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 09:19:24
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quote:
Originally posted by 1922
There is also exhaust wrap - I've never tried it but maybe it would do the same job for less money.
Yes that is true, it just looks like you've wrapped the manifold in one of your dads old vests!!
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1922
United Kingdom
549 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 12:00:27
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quote:
Yes that is true, it just looks like you've wrapped the manifold in one of your dads old vests!!
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Edited by - 1922 on 16 Jan 2013 12:00:48 |
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Jon
United Kingdom
221 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 13:28:39
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I dont think its nothing to do with any of the above mentioned its to do with the inside of your tank coming away and ending up in the fuel line/pump from my experiance. Rootes group painted all the insides of the tank! If you have the glass bowel fuel pump take the bowl off and have a look inside the pump.
Worked great with the old four star fuel but not the new unleaded with more methanol than ever! It works like paint stripper I had a load of trouble with my rapier,my commer van,my avenger and my friend who also has lots of rootes vehicles also having the same problem. Ive now fitted a custom made ally fuel tank to my commer its now sorted Another way is remove your tank,chuck a hand full of nuts and bolts in,strap it to a cement mixer and leave it goin for a few hours! Soon strips it all off to nice shiney metal
Hillman Avenger MK1 GT,
Commer PB Pick-Up,
Commer PB Panel Van,
Commer Auto sleeper,
Triumph Stag MK1,
Chevette HS x2,
Lancia Delta Integrale,
Fiat Mk1 Uno Turbo,
Rapier Fastback,
MGZR Xpower grey MK2,
MK6 Ford Escort LX 1.8d van,
MK5 Transit 2.5td 150,
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Tony Fearn
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 15:43:48
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Thanks for the varied replies Peter, Jason, Derek and Jon.
The link to the MG man's problem that I posted also mentions red rotors etc from the Distributor Doctor. I must admit, I've packed the inside of the rotor with thin paper to reduce the 'waggliness'(!!) it seems to have, so a new rotor and cap seem to be a good start.
I won't mind the dad's old vest look under the bonnet if I buy some heat-shield tape, as long as it works.
A clean-out of the petrol tank and lines and having a look at the pump and the carbs won't go amiss.
So I'll work through these suggestions when it comes a little warmer, and I'll also study whether there's a way to make some sort of shield from aluminium sheet as well.
Just thought - back flushing the rad and engine block might also have an effect, although the temp gauge hardly moves off the rest even after a few miles of motoring.
Regards,
Tony.
Tony Fearn |
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JPSH120
United Kingdom
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 15:55:29
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Ceramic coating is claimed to reduce temperatures by ~30%, not sure about the wrap.
If your temp gauge is not moving sounds like you could be bunged up! The last time I used my H120 the heater packed up and when I stripped the engine the amount of gunge that came out was shocking!
I still think heat is the likely candidate, the other suggestions would surely show themselves all the time, whereas you seem to be suffering when the engine is hot.
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2013 : 06:01:27
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If you take a look at the website of Zircotec and go to the rubric FAQ you will see that wrapping is not such a good idea. The wrapping will detoriate in time and will have a bad influence on the stainless steel exhaust. Also the wrapping lasts for a certain period and then one has to do the job again. So ceramic coating is the answer in reducing engine heath under the bonnet.
Regards,
Peter |
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Jon
United Kingdom
221 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2013 : 10:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by JPSH120
I still think heat is the likely candidate, the other suggestions would surely show themselves all the time, whereas you seem to be suffering when the engine is hot.
Not necessarily as the more you drive the more of a vacume it craetes on the fuel line and as the fuel pump is mechanical the more rpm your doing the more the pump just about manages to fuel the engine. Mine used to start first time when it was cold and shunting it around the drive at home as soon as i got it on the road i had this problem. I changed the union on the tank for a bigger bore one to and fitted a larger fuel line. It was faultless after this
Hillman Avenger MK1 GT,
Commer PB Pick-Up,
Commer PB Panel Van,
Commer Auto sleeper,
Triumph Stag MK1,
Chevette HS x2,
Lancia Delta Integrale,
Fiat Mk1 Uno Turbo,
Rapier Fastback,
MGZR Xpower grey MK2,
MK6 Ford Escort LX 1.8d van,
MK5 Transit 2.5td 150,
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 06:28:24
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Hi Tony,
Did you solve your hot starting problem? If so what did it cure? |
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Tony Fearn
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2013 : 21:36:34
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Hello Peter,
I haven't been in the garage to work on the car yet as the weather hasn't been too good here, and my garage is not attached to the house. It is a wooden one some way away.
Nevertheless, I have made up an aluminium heat shield for the carburettors, and a couple of tufnol spacers for the inlet manifold at night school where I can make parts and panels etc. between 19.00 and 21.oo hrs during term time.
I shall fit these soon I hope, but I'm also going to ring the 'Distributor Doctor' (http://distributordoctor.com/) as perhaps the main problem is the distributor. That company does red rotors and lots of other useful parts I'm told.
There's also the petrol pump which might just need an overhaul. I saw a gasket on eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281066302236?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) for the pump, but it looks rather thick, so I don't know what effect it will have on the pump lever if the pump is taken 4 or 5 mm from the engine casing.
So we'll just have to watch this space, but I'm determined to make her run as she should without any fear of long journeys. After all I used to do them in the very recent past.
A good friend of mine in the Jowett Car Club once said to me when I was a bit low after having trouble with one of my pre-war Jowett cars:-
Tony lad, it's a machine, it can be mended!!
Regards,
Tony.
P.S. Should I consider electronic ignition, and is it easy to fit? |
Edited by - Tony Fearn on 21 Feb 2013 21:38:44 |
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Poor starting when hot.
